Stories have the power to change the world … they inspire us, teach us, connect us. This is the fifteenth installment in the “Stories That Change The World” series.
In her book “Praying God’s Word” Beth Moore teaches that the flood story and the Sodom and Gomorrah story both point to homosexual sin and goes on to say Jesus said homosexual sin will increase in the last days. In the section of her book that addresses homosexuality she describes it as a “deadly sexual assault of the evil one in our society” and proclaims that “God can indeed deliver you and anxiously awaits your full cooperation” while claiming that “every person I know who has been liberated from this lifestyle has described it as obsessive, controlling and increasingly absorbing … in a way only understood in the unseen world, a satanically induced web is associated with this particular yoke.”
Below is a letter from Meredith Indermaur to Beth Moore. Meredith wrote to Beth hoping her story and personal experience of being the mother of son who is gay would make an impact on Moore and cause her to take the time to re-examine her beliefs and statements regarding lgbt people.
Unfortunately, Beth did not respond to Meredith. Instead, someone from Living Proof Ministries responded on behalf of Beth. The response was generic and could have been used as a response to anyone complaining or questioning something Beth taught. There was a reference to the personal story written in at the end of the letter but no compassion expressed for how hurtful or damaging the statements in “Praying God’s Word” would be to the loving mother of an lgbt child or to an lgbt person themselves.
Although Meredith didn’t receive the response she hoped for I am sharing her story here with the hope that it will help someone else break free from the damaging and harmful message about lgbt people that Beth Moore hasn’t yet recanted.
Letter to Beth:
Dear Beth,
I’m writing to you on National Coming Out Day. Although I’m not gay, I have a child who is, and I believe I owe it to him and others like him to tell them the truth in love.
The thing about that is this: You and I view that truth differently, and acting upon the truth that I’ve learned has saved his life.
I’d like to tell you a story.
Until 2009, I was a Christian who was also homophobic. One of my “claims to fame” was writing a letter to the editor of the Raleigh News and Observer decrying homosexuality, agreeing with the Book of Leviticus that it was THE abomination of abominations. I even received a heartfelt but what I considered misguided letter by a gay man the next town over, telling me that it was my kind of theology that so wounded the LGBT community; while his letter stung and gave me pause, I chalked it up to his being wrong. I’d been praying for a couple of years at that point for God to break my heart for the things that break His. I had a few ideas of maybe someone whom He could put on my path (like a poor person, for example), but God had bigger things in mind for my heart – much, much bigger (and closer to home) things. 2009 was the year my then-17 year old son came out to my husband and me after years of battling depression and suicidal thoughts. We’d had inklings all along, ever since he was about 3 years old, that he was just different. His interests, even then, were dressing up in his sister’s tutus, twirling around the room like a ballerina, and playing in my Tupperware. He would be neither distracted nor deterred from these things. We tried sports, but he cried on the field. He cried on ALL fields. We gave him Batman pajamas which he never wore. He had no interest in rough-housing or getting dirty. He begged to take dance, but we said no and made him sit through piano lessons. He did enjoy Boy Scouts, however, and he even went on to earn the rank of Eagle. He also had a deep interest in religion and a love for Jesus from a very early age. But when he confirmed to us what I’d been fearing for 14 years, I could not – would not – see this as the “thing” for which I’d prayed. Instead, I saw it as a moral failure, a lie, a rebellion, and an abandonment of who he really was. I wondered where my husband and I had gone wrong as parents. No thanks to James Dobson, we had been led to believe that our parenting was to blame somehow, but we didn’t fit the mold of those gay-making parents to which Dobson referred. What, then? Had we not prayed enough? Taken our son to church enough? Was the problem that we were in a mainline rather than in a non-denominational church? Should we have forced him to stick with soccer, or t-ball, or maybe thrown him into football? He had accepted Jesus into his heart at a young age: Was he too young? Did it not “take?” Was our son’s homosexuality the result of some sin in my life or the life of my husband? Was it due to his birth order – the third child born after 2 girls?
I could go on, but I won’t bore you with the details of those years of our examining any and every possibility of causation. I think you understand my point that there is nothing, nothing, nothing my husband and I either did or left undone that caused our son to be gay. He was loved, he was tended to, he was taught God’s Word, he was not abused, etc., etc., etc. For parents of gay children to hear other Christians say that it is their fault their child is gay is THE wound of wounds – and it’s the lie of lies. It’s right up there with the “choice” myth. If I thought I had some responsibility in turning a former straight person gay, I would have God-sized power, which neither I nor anyone else has. If I thought I’d left some “door” open in the life of my child which allowed Satan to have easy access, I’d not want to live another day. When you love, protect, provide for, pray over, pray with, encourage, discipline, and teach a child, you’ve done absolutely all the “right” you can do for that child. What would make someone believe that a parent who does these things could turn their child gay? And if a parent does not do these things, they still cannot turn their child gay; if that were true, there would be a lot more LGBT people in the world than there already are. There are hordes of abused, neglected children in this world – which is the real shame – but they are not gay because they are abused and neglected.
God used my son – and others like him – to break my heart so that more of Him could get in. After repeated face-in-the-carpet prayers of pleading, of bargaining, of begging, the Spirit led me to love. Just love. Love in the truth that my son is fearfully and wonderfully made. Love in the truth that he belongs to God. Love in the truth that God loves him just as he is. Love in the truth that his wholeness is born out of his living the truth of who he is: A gay Jesus-follower. Love in the truth that God has a place for him in His Kingdom. Love in the truth that God does not change sexual orientation in 99.9% of lives; if He did, Exodus would not have shut its doors, and Alan Chambers, himself still gay, would not have penned a book about the dangers of reparative therapy.
There are many who have entered this conversation with love, compassion, and grace: Pastor Stan Mitchell, Pastor Danillo Cortez, Pastor Ken Wilson, Pastor John Pavlovitz are a handful of those who, after careful, meticulous study of God’s Word, after hours and hours of prayer, and after “doing life” alongside LGBT people have changed their positions. They would rather be “wrong” about this than be “wrong” about love and acceptance. They would rather tell God on the Last Day that they are guilty of loving too much than barring the doors and loving too little. They would rather embrace than enforce. I and over 600 Christian moms who are members of a private Facebook group stand with these courageous pastors. Many of us have read all your books and participated in all your studies. All of us are grieved to know, for example, that the Sodom story is taught in a such way to make it about homosexuality rather than (when viewed in context) taught the truth that it is about same-sex gang rape and arrogance, greed, and inhospitality as outlined in Ezekiel 16:49-50.
Jesus said, “You will know them by their fruit.” When LGBT people know that they are loved and accepted without the pressure to change what, in reality, cannot be changed, they are free to live for Jesus. Every single LGBT Jesus follower I know has an extra “something” that the rest of us don’t have, and the bulk of that is deep empathy for The Other. Imagine trying to live for Christ with the burden of also trying to change something inborn that cannot be changed and something that man, not God, has placed on your back like a two-ton weight. No wonder so many LGBT youth commit suicide. The message the evangelical community has been delivering for years is not God’s message, nor is it the Gospel – it’s legalism. I thank God every day that He, alone, knows all the backstories and, as such, is the only One Who can judge rightly. It’s difficult enough for us to love God and love others without the added burden of trying to determine who’s “in” and who’s “out.”
Science is on its way to being a friend to the LGBT community. Epigenetics is in its infancy but is already revealing some stunning discoveries about “switches” that have the capability to turn genes off and on as they are related to diseases and also to same-sex attraction. I believe that God is the “Who,” but science is the “how.” Sexuality is complex, and homosexuality is but one variant of a spectrum that no one fully comprehends – at least not yet.
As a child, my son had a sweet disposition, a kind heart, a compassionate spirit, a consuming love for Jesus, and a fascination for all things sparkly. The same holds true today. He, and others like him, have been my greatest teachers.
Please consider that you may be wrong about homosexuality, just as I’m open to the possibility that I may be wrong. Please hold your views before the God of creation and ask if there is anything else He needs to show you, and I promise to do the same.
Your sister in Christ,
Response from Living Proof Ministries:
“Dear Meredith,
Your writing is the right thing and I am so thankful. I truly esteem you, respect you, and am grateful for the privilege to share His Word together.
I am deeply sorry that any portion in the teaching offended you. I realize there are differences in preferences, and in perspective, and I thank you for writing with yours. You have been heard. I pray our love for Christ outshines any other thing.
Someone will always differ. We hope you understand. Beth wants so much to serve you well and she teaches with fear and trembling before God She’d be the first one to tell you how fallible she is. This is one reason why she tells her groups continually to stay under the teachings of many teachers and preachers. Only God can be completely taken at His word and His works alone are perfect. Pray for her, as she never expected to have so much responsibility. Her heart is to encourage people to love God through His Word. We hope that goal was accomplished whether or not you were in complete agreement or understanding over every point of doctrine or interpretation.
On Beth’s behalf, please accept our sincere apologies and please forgive us for any offense. The last thing we would want to do is to cause you to stumble.
I pray that we can keep that focus together, yes, even when the surrounding differ.
You are dearly loved,
Nancy
*And then Nancy penned this by hand: “Your love for your son is evident – may God bless you and all your family. We care so much.”
Meredith is a member of my private Facebook support group for Christian moms of lgbt kids. You can read more of her story on her blog In through the Coming Out Door
There are more than 600 moms of lgbt kids in our Facebook support group. It is a place where moms of lgbt kids find and give a lot of support and share a lot of information. If you are interested in joining the private Facebook group for moms of lgbt kids send an email to lizdyer55@gmail.com and put “Mom’s Facebook Group” as the subject.
MacJoyful said:
Reblogged this on Macjoyful's Minimal Musings.
Gretchen said:
I saw nothing wrong with Beth Moore’s response. She basically agreed to disagree and apologized several times for any hurt or offense she caused. What we can agree on is that we should love all people.
MacJoyful said:
It’s all in the eyes of the beholder. Those who will not see prefer the darkness to light.
Laura Dorsey said:
I believe so as well, what a beautiful and carefully thought out, prayed over response! Isn’t the Lord present here? There is no arguing. No argument over interpretation of scripture, although there is clearly a different perspective of what scripture says, what love is and what sin is. I’m betting that there is a lot of prayer happening for this Mom who poured out her heart, her personal experiences and beliefs in her letter, prayer for her and prayer for her son. Not condemnation-prayer. I’m seeing that she is choosing to not argue over scripture, she has already carefully encouraged anyone struggling with this particular sin, in battling against the bondage of it. I believe her motives are godly, are true and prepared by the Lord. How can you show love by being afraid to tell the truth, in love? How can anyone hear the truth, and turn away from what satan has caused to seem right and good, without the Holy Spirit doing a work in the heart? The beauty here to me is that this Mom, who loves her son and pours out things very private and close to her heart, understands that she still is searching for the Lords’ will and knows she may have thoughts that He is planning to help change. She knows that she will continue to pray, knows that Beth will as well; and don’t we know that our Father answers when we are truly seeking Him?! What is love? Love conquers all, and Beth chose to show love instead of argument, giving room for the Spirit to come in and minister! Lord thank You for Your love for each one of us, sinners all, and for Your mercy on us. Help us to reach others in Your name, help us to not be afraid to address what You have said is sin. Help us to seek Your approval more than the approval of man. Help us to show love to a culture that defines love differently than You do; Lord show us how to love well, love anyone who is not yet convicted of any kind of sin. Lord help us to be bold in our prayers and our love for each other, give us wisdom and discernment for loving & reaching those who are deceived, who call sin right and good. Help us to continue to glorify You, knowing that You have already won this spiritual battle that is waging all over this temporary place. Convict us of sin, help us each one to walk away from it, trusting in You alone! Thank You Father!
Rachel Held Evans said:
Just want to offer my support and encouragement. I hope that I am half the mom that you are to our (soon-to-be-born) son.
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
That means a lot, Rachel. Thank you so much.
carolb12 said:
Tyou Rachel on behalf of all of us who have walked this path. Meredith is a dear friend, and this heartfelt letter needs to be heard around the world.
Liz said:
Thanks for your support and love Rachel! We love you!! You are going to be a GREAT mom! And your little one will have a lot of loving aunties!!! 🙂
jesedivine said:
You will do just fine i believe… 👍😀
H&N KONNECTIONS
MissCaron said:
Reblogged this on Tin Cup Chalice and commented:
This was excellent…
Sarah Thacker-Estell said:
My goodness. I’m in tears. Thank you for sharing this letter.
Lilly said:
Meredith is following a religion and it’s rules. “did we not take him to church enough?” ect. True Christianity is not a religion it is a lifestyle. I don’t care what the media misguidedly tells us being homosexual is wrong. I agree with Beth Moore and also add the fact that “being gay” is “such a good” it has become a fad many are trying on.
His Mon said:
I understand all the questions we ask God on this journey. I also understand how much peace God brings in our hearts.
Isaac Gregg said:
i would add to this that true Christianity isn’t a “lifestye” either.. and it’s not about making the right choices.. every religion exercises self control and many do it better then most Christians so it How we live i a measuring stick of our commitment to God I have bad news for you.. You are a Pharisee and condemned to repeat the same mistake. The way to Live as a believer is to live out of an unending source of power and love and by power i mean miraculous events, healing ect.. If we just walk through life “making” the right decisions and doing good deeds we haven’t discovered him yet were just doing something someone else told us to do..
Karen said:
I am just curious how many gay people you have talked to or made friends with and listened to their stories to know and understand that being “gay” is most certainly NOT a fad…. Do the research with the newest technology and talk to research neurologist…. Their is a difference in the brain… So before you make it sound so easy to “undo” the way someone was made by GOD and condem those you don’t really know or understand….Please know your subject matter…
awanderer said:
Lilly, I’m not quite sure what article you read. Meredith makes it clear she was following religion by feeling they had to do all the right things in order to ensure their son didn’t end up gay- she realizes her legalism when he finally came out to them and being forced to face it. Through his coming out and his battle with depression God showed her how to truly love. There is absolutely nothing in the article concerning how the media or a ‘fad’ influenced her son. She states quite clearly they knew as early as three years old that he was ‘different’. Regardless of where one stands on homosexuality, no Christian leader has the right to demean another person based on their gender. Beth Moore could have been more loving in her statement. There is no excuse for rudeness or meanness, especially if you have not walked the same road. Meredith walked it.
Will Indermaur said:
True Christianity is about Christly love and compassion. As far as homosexuality as a “fad”.. that is rediculous. Do your research. You will find homosexuality has always existed. Calling it a fad completely disregards the thousands of people who have been tortured and killed because of their sexual orientation (many by the Church itself). It is not something people lightly “decide” to take on.
Morven Baker said:
Good grief, Lily. You obviously have no clue as to the YEARS of prayer that have been prayed by the majority of gay people who have begged God to change them. “A fad people are trying on” ?? Do you have any understanding of how gay people are treated? My child was beaten in school, bullied & suffered for years as an adult. Still does. No one would ever choose this. Please educate yourself, have some compassion for people whose journey you do not understand, and put yourself in the shoes of a parent whose child has been called a demon by Beth Moore. Believe me, your eyes would be looking at this an awful lot differently.
marieburtness said:
My thought is “why didn’t the mother just let her boy do all the things he wanted to do as a child?” What’s wrong with a boy liking cooking and dancing. This is the problem with so-called gender roles, when we try to “distract or deter” as she said, it leads to confusion. That poor boy was told he was weird and different from the start. We need to start letting little boys and little girls play how they want without worrying about whether it fits with their “gender”.
Tabitha said:
Yes!! I get tired of the double standard: girls can play with tractors and are encouraged to play team sports that used to be boy-only. When a boy wants to play “girl” games, he is looked down upon, parents are made to feel that they are turning their boy into a girl. So over it!
Will Indermaur said:
Later on in life I was able to do those things and with great support, I am happy to say (:
The Rev. RJ Powell said:
As a gay man, who grew up much as your son did, thank you! Thank you for being a loving mom, and for seeing in your son the true beauty of the gift that he is. God is so good. And now as a pastor and priest, I pray God’s richest blessing on you, your family, and upon all of God’s people, LGBT and straight alike! May God lead us all into a deeper understanding of the mystery that is within each of us. Peace.
talktoj8 said:
Thank you for sharing. I am still undecided on a particular stance but I know love needs to be the stance. Period, The End. I don’t really care to get drawn into theological debates since those are simply part of the kingdom of words.
Liz said:
YES! Galatians 5:6 tells us “the only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love”
seq2real said:
Amen! And hallelujah! This is sooo very refreshing! When people have not experienced in God’s holy presence what another is experiencing, so that they have no personal knowledge of what God’s mind is to be able to take a stance, taking the position of love is the most noble and greatest blessing they can bestow upon the LGBTQI community! Thank you, talktoj8!!
donnicia said:
I am saddened by your need to attack a fellow Christian in such a public way. I understand that you disagree with her position on this subject..but did you go to her, did you follow the biblical instruction to have a discussion with her? Why did you feel the need to publicize what you seem to believe to be her error without any input from her. She is a Christian and she is your sister whether you agree with her stance or not. Jesus loves her just as He does you. You owe her an apology.
David Hance said:
How do you propose she “go” to Beth, when Beth has insulated herself with staff members? This letter is not an attack in any way, shape, or form on Beth or her beliefs. It is an ask to consider the possibility. Beth is the one that, through her staff, has put a halt to the conversation. She has set herself apart and obviously isn’t willing to be directly engaged with anyone that may disagree with her. Perhaps a ministry is too large when you can no longer be connected with those you are ministering to and have to resort to form letters to communicate.
April R said:
Agree. A call-out is different than an attack.
Cindy Garrison said:
Where is there an attack? It’s not her “stance” that is important…but what God intends. This woman is just as entitled to her opinion of what He said as Beth Moor would be if she had responded. No apology. You need to be more flexible.
Alise said:
Disagreeing with someone is not an attack. This mother simply shares the story of her son and asks Beth to consider how her words might have an impact on the lives of both LGBTQ people and those who love them.
One being a light in some areas does not mean that others are not still in the dark. This doesn’t negate all of Mrs. Moore’s good work, but it is important that she hear from those who are hurt by this particularly teaching.
Thank you, Meredith, for saying what so many are unable to say.
Laura Dorsey said:
The thing is that it’s not Beth that has defined and designed marriage and family, designed our very bodies carefully, it’s the Lord Himself! It’s not Beth that you are truly upset with, I can’t help but believe that this Mom and others here are wrestling with God over this matter. This is a thing that belongs to Him, don’t we all agree? He says that homosexuality is a perversion, nothing but sin. He gives the ability to any of us who will, to turn to Him and turn away from any din. Why choose to try to stay in it? He came to die for us because of our sin-because of His great love for us. Undeserved love. Amazing love! Why choose a lifestyle that is out of His will? Why try to redefine what it truly is? The person who chooses homosexuality is not our enemy, he IS loved, but his choice to continue in sin separates him from God! How can we call that love? How can we pretend that something that will destroy both the physical and the spiritual is something made by God Himself? No. It’s a lie….satan is very capable of making a lie look like truth, but his end has already been determined! Our God is stronger than the prince of darkness!
Liz said:
It is not an attack. It is a plea for Beth to re-examine her beliefs and to offer hope to those who are living in the shadows because their spirit knows that the words in books like Praying God’s Word are not true.
donnicia said:
Rachel could have disagreed with the issue without bring Beth Moore’s name into. I am so tired of Christians fighting among themselves…particularly in public. The world will know that we are Christians by the way we love each other. You never correct someone you love in public….right moms?
Susan Cottrell said:
Donnicia, the pubic is seeing Christians tear each other and LGBTQ people to pieces! This is not something we can pretend is not happening, like dad coming home drunk and we pretend he’s just tired. Beth’s writing is public, her impact is public, and so we call her on it in public. If you think the public hasn’t noticed how poorly Christians are loving each other, you might want to look from a different perspective. People are leaving churches because of the lack of love they find there.
Jason said:
Go to Beth Moore and talk to her personally? She isn’t a normal person. One doesn’t just pick up the phone and speak to Barbra Streisand or Joel Osteen. The woman teaches false doctrine as well as intolerance. She isn’t ordained or educated enough to spout off the legalistic, patriarchal stuff she “preaches” about.
False teachers. The Bible ultimately teaches of what Christ came to do and that is to love and put away all semblances of hate and legalism.
Angela L Evans said:
So are you saying being gay is good fruit, show me scripture on this one? Apparently your not educated in God’s word. Your right Christians are not normal people, we are peculiar.
Kathy Baldock said:
I think this may be the SAME letter I got from Beth’s staff in the name of Beth about 4 years ago when I wrote about her treatment of the Sodom verses in the study on the Patriarchs.
She is a wonderful teacher with a blind spot deeply ingrained I suspect partially by her obligatory difference to those who support her and publish her.
Meredith did a wonder job on the letter. I hope these sorts of letters keep getting written and mailed — SOMEONE is reading them at Living Proof.
Cindy Garrison said:
Like!
Liz said:
Kathy,
I tried to search online to see if I could find someone posting a letter they might have received from LPM. It sounded like a form letter to me.
kabadanke said:
Reblogged this on My thoughts on Jesus and His Church and commented:
Thought this would be a fantastic primer. I’m still working on a piece about why I “came out” as a gay affirming Christian after many years of being trained to believe a man loving a man or a woman loving a woman is an “abomination.”
Emily Nielsen Jones said:
Thank yo so much for sharing your personal story about how you changed your mind on this “issue”. I also have changed my view and really see mothers’ voices like yours as really important in moving this issue from an abstract black&white ideological “issue” to a dialogue that is more grounded in all of the nuanced realities of our human lives. Thanks for hearing the truth of your own maternal heart and sharing this with the world.
Laura said:
This post, this letter – has reversed my thinking by 180 degrees.
Jennifer Dickenson said:
Reblogged this on Cage-Free Christian and commented:
My heart was broken on Sunday as a (queer) couple, who has only recently started to call Four Creeks home, wept upon hearing we were shutting down. We were the only church in their lifetime that had seen and embraced them as sacred and loved humans…period. Hopefully they’ll continue to find connection and life with us as we continue to meet and grow as family in each others’ homes. Love is supreme. Everything else has been stripped away…and for that I am so thankful.
ylfrith said:
Don’t give up Jennifer, I pray you all keep meeting and don’t give up! What Four Creeks and many other churches around the country are doing is exactly what needs to be done. Church is a place for all. Everyone. I too attend a church in Franklin, TN, that is fully inclusive of the lgbtq community. Our church, Grace Pointe came out in January for full inclusion of the lgbtq community. It has been a rough road, but we are making it and starting to grow again. It is a beautiful church with so many beautiful people. Keep on being the hands and feet of Jesus. Praying for Four Creeks.
Jennifer Dickenson said:
I was at Grace Pointe just a few weeks ago when John Pavlovich spoke there! I have 2 kids who attend Belmont University so I jumped at the chance to go visit them and meet John in person (we’re online buddies). I’ve said for some time now that I just couldn’t picture myself ever going to church again if Four Creeks folded. Grace Pointe made me stop thinking that. I don’t know what will happen over the next months/years. Our long-term plan is to move out to the Nashville area to be near family. Until that’s feasible, we’ll continue to minister to whoever is willing here…and there is such a lovely (if very small) group of people who tell us they really want us to continue in whatever capacity we can together. Thank you for the encouragement! I know the wave has been growing and that folks like yourselves and us are on the front end of it. I do believe it’s cresting. Just got to hold on and ride it out and go where it’s taking us I guess.
Rob McQueary said:
I agree about the attitude and tone being of utmost importance in how we communicate. That said, if we are to follow the God of the Bible, we cannot start from a human connection and try to make the Bible fit. It has to be Bible first. We must be people who scour the Scriptures for the mind and heart of God then seek to apply that to our human connections.
Rachel said:
Was not the mind and heart of God his love for his people? You can’t save them a) if you have no connection to them and b) and if they won’t listen to the words you speak because of all you sat or have said against them shouldn’t you change your tactics? Love people to Christ, not scriptural ly pummel them. Our job is love, the change and conviction comes from God.
Rose said:
Thanks Meredith. Your story could have been my story. Heartbreaking what some of the messages have been from Christians to the LGBTQ community. Well done
Beth Caplin said:
So well written. I have to wonder if people like Beth Moore have ever genuinely listened to coming out stories and the difficulties of such a journey before making statements like that. The “I’m not homophobic, I have gay friends!” trope is getting a little tiring. What do people mean when they say that, exactly? And more importantly, would those “gay friends” agree?
Will Indermaur said:
Proud of you, Mom ❤
Cindy Boney Reddish said:
Will, you have one of the sweetest mothers I have ever met. Your entire family is filled with so much love and kindness. Our family had the privilege of living next door to you and witnessing that love and the love you have for Christ. I was in no way surprised when you decided to reveal your true feelings and I can only imagine how hard that must have been for you. I know you feel very fortunate to have such great support at home and from friends that embrace you for who you are. The ones that walked away truly don’t understand! I will always be your friend and brother in Christ. Continue your journey in peace and happiness. Sending much love your way!
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
I love miss you, Cindy!
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
*and*
April R said:
So well written! I too used to be “loving” to my gay friends but regularly let them know how sinful they were being. Ugh. It’s horrible how far from the point I was. Whether it is sinful or not, no one deserves to be ridiculed, cut off, or shamed for something they cannot control. Kindness, understanding and acceptance are always the right way to go.
Thanks for sharing this, it needs to be heard by even more of the Christian community!
Yesenia Alvarez Voigt said:
Liz, thank you for this. I was also blinded by my “taught” religious beliefs before. I remember being a HUGE fan of Grey’s Anatomy a few years back. I watched it without fail. And then, when they introduced gay characters I decided to make a “stand” I was no longer going to watch it. I mean what horror! Now, the fact that they were all having casual sex, and cheating didn’t bother me…but dammit gay people did. WOW did God have a doozie for me when my oldest daughter came out a few years later (grant it I had suspected it…just not accepted it). After many suicide attempts and a battle with depression and anxiety, I was able to get to the point (thru God’s grace and mercy) that I thought “I am so glad she is alive!” I didn’t care if she was gay! But that wasn’t enough. A year after that, she came out as transgender (FTM). I turned to God, what was the reason? How did I miss it? What did I do wrong? Is this really true? How is everyone going to react? And the answer I got was peace. Peace about it all. My job is not to care what others think, my job is to love him the way God loves him. I see him now and he is still my first born child which I labored for almost 24 hours to bring into this world.. He is still the creative artist with a heart full of love. The only difference now is that he is being true to himself and true to God’s plan for him.
helenhsm said:
I’ve done several Beth Moore’s studies and been to one of her conferences and they have been life changing. However, I differ with her view regarding homosexuality. I hope she would at least take a “third way” approach, believing there is room for alternate interpretations and not letting this be a divisive issue. I would challenge her to listen to people’s stories, like those in the book Torn by Justin Lee. Thanks for your bold letter Meredith, may it bring good fruit.
thepomprince said:
Reblogged this on thepomprince and commented:
When I was 17 I came out to my parents.. years later my mom is sharing her story of how God changed her heart ❤
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His Mom said:
I love how Beth Moore shares God revealing Himself to her. I know this has been true for hundreds of us who walk this journey with our kids.
They definitely have the fingerprint of God, and when our kids know that God is not who some churches describe, they have hope and see His love.
VH said:
When Jesus said that the second greatest commandment is to love thy neighbor as thy self I don’t believe that He means that you should become accepting of a sinful lifestyle. In fact I think that it means the opposite. Jesus loves us too much to allow us to live in sin. Any sin on the part of man is deserving of condemnation. In many parts of scripture the Bible describes any sort of sexual relationship outside of marriage between a man and a woman to be sinful. I don’t believe that is a misinterpretation or a misunderstanding of what multiple writers of the old and new testament clearly wrote and what is to be plainly read as the inspired Word of God. The problem comes down to persons in the LBGT community calling their behavior “not sinful”. The reality is that we are all sinful and in need of God’s grace. My sin is not better or worse than anyone else’s is. The problem is that persons in LBGT community can’t understand why a just and perfect God would create a person in such a way that would be called sinful in Scripture. The answer to that question is that God allowed all of us to be born into sin and we all have a sin nature.
ylfrith said:
VH I do agree with one thing in your comment. That the Bible is the inspired word of God. Inspired. Not dictated. Interpreting the Bible for many followers of Christ is just that, an interpretation. “God breathed” and inspired. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, true. But cultural and social norms will always have a part in how we view and live out scripture. If you study what the “abomination”( as it is referred to in the Bible) was, it was masters abusing slaves. People in a position of power taking advantage of people with no power. This has been assumed to be homosexuality for many, many years. It is not, it is about misuse of a position. Also, Paul could only view societal norms in his day through the cultural lens of the time. Surely the God of the universe has always known that culture and societies would change. He gave us a mind to use, not just ears to hear. When something is as wrong as racism, homophobia and misogyny (to name just a few) we as humans and Christ followers have an obligation to break free of the false dogma we have bought into and dig deeper into how God wants us to live out our lives in the here and now. Start digging deeper. It is scary to break ranks and let God lead you down a new path, but something new does not equate to bad. Break free and live out Jesus love. The harvest is plentiful and the workers are few.
Laura Dorsey said:
Thank You Lord for this response. The truth will set you free….free from sin! We are free to choose Christ! Free to choose to ask God to give us strength we do not have in our own selves; to walk away from carnal desires that will destroy us! Free to live trusting Him instead of what the world says is right! Lord help those here who don’t yet understand what they are fighting for-sin. Help them to stop embracing what satan has made to look enticing. Help them to understand that the word ‘homophobic’ is being misused, in the battle to paint sin as something quite different. Lord our people have turned away from You, help them to know You and hear from You now today!
Eunice said:
As a Christian mum of 3 children, I often wonder how I would react if 1 of my preciouses told me they were gay. I sincerely hope that I would affirm to them that I love them and God still loves them. I would also hope that I would tell them that I believe that the practice of homosexuality is a sin, according to the bible. Therefore, should they choose to carry on following Jesus for the rest of their life, then the sacrifice they would have to make is to live celibate. Yes, the church must show more love – after all it is for sinners, like me, that Christ came to die. However, it will be wrong, in my view, for the church to preach that the practice of homosexuality is not a sin. If that teaching offends, then, in my view, it is the very bible that offends.
ursula said:
I was an editor for Beth’s publishing house in Nashville and worked on her material. (Note past tense.)
First, a note in defense of form letters: as you can see even by this comment thread, people have differing beliefs and feel strongly about them. Beth’s publications reach so many people with so many different beliefs, it’s common to have people write to say they differ with her on issues from homosexuality and women pastors to whether it was Jesus or an angel in the fiery furnace with Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to whether tattoos are OK.
Summary: it’s not that homosexuality isn’t important; it’s that she gets a lot of feedback by fired-up individuals on a regular basis. It’s tricky to handle having multiple incensed (and hurt) folks address you and your beliefs in the time you have.
Second, it’s hard to change your mind about your core beliefs. If you’ve been taught to interpret the Bible a certain way, it seems wronger than wrong to consider seeing it differently. How does change happen? Usually when it hits close to home. I honestly don’t know Beth’s stance on divorce, but when one of her daughters went through one, it probably involved some mental shifts for her (most—not all—Southern Baptists tend to preach against divorce).
I know Beth’s words affect a significant number of Christians, so I also would appreciate her being open to a shift in her beliefs about homosexuality … and biblical inerrancy … and penal substitution … and so on. But I’m not sure the answer is Team Get Beth so much as it is Team Love Others and Share Your Truth.
Final thought: I would encourage folks to bypass the sting of Make Sure Beth and Her Bethites Get How Wrong They Are and see if we can’t make more headway speaking the truth in love (ex: “I don’t agree with Beth Moore’s stance on … Here’s what I think instead …”).
Laura Dorsey said:
Ursula thank you for writing. May I say that I respectfully disagree with your promoting a direct opposition to what the Lord says in His word? How many persons might read your words and believe that the Bible might be casually altered to suit one’s whim, having no regard to turn away from sin? Please I beg you to pray about your position and indifferent attitude toward the Lords’ purpose and clearly defined plans for men and women, and His warning to not fall into sin.
ylfrith said:
Reblogged this on Pots, Pans and Proverbs.
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Max Blalock said:
I do want to offer an important clarification to the article above. The epigenetic study that appears to be reference in the article is already being debunked: “So, ultimately, what we have is an underpowered fishing expedition that used inappropriate statistics and that snagged results which may be false positives. Epigenetics marks may well be involved in sexual orientation. But this study, despite its claims, does not prove that and, as designed, could not have.” http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/no-scientists-have-not-found-the-gay-gene/410059/
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
Hello Max – Meredith, here. I appreciate your sharing the link above and believe that there will continue to be scientific gleanings – with missteps – along the way. As I wrote in my letter, sexuality is complex, and while we may never know what all contributes to same-sex attraction, I do believe science (including epigenetics) will continue to provide us with clues. To that end, you might find this article interesting:
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay
C.A. Morgan said:
It is a confusing time, and you are right to love and support your son, but it doesn’t automatically follow that all “gay” people are born this way. As someone with friends in the LGBT community, I remain a believer that for many, this lifestyle is a choice, and one that is not beneficial to any but those involved in it. Advances in neuroscience show us that synapses are shortened and formed by repeat experiences. With media saturation promoting gay rights, moral relativity being taught in schools, and liberalism “in” and conservatism “out”, it is no wonder so many are trying alternative lifestyles on for size. The danger I see is that those who rationalize their behavior do so by redefining willfulness and sin as love. Further, they insist others must validate their decisions.This reinforces self-gratification over self-sacrifice. While my heart breaks for those who have no option about their sexual orientation (their particular thorn), it mourns for our disintegrating values and common sense. I thank you, however, for thoughtfully considering and sharing your experience with others who may be dealing with the pain and confusion of this issue, and pray that someday we may all be perfected in understanding, myself included.
Liz said:
Someone may choose their behavior but no one chooses their sexual orientation. A gay person may choose to be in a heterosexual relationship but that doesn’t make that person straight. A straight person may choose to be in a homosexual relationship but that doesn’t make that person gay.
Bethany Miller Slack said:
So I noticed this thread on Facebook because a personal friend of mine had commented on it. She got a lot of negative responses, and it got me thinking about the nature of internet conversations and how it can be so tempting to caricature a person and his/her viewpoints based on the words they put on the screen. When I read her post, I believe I can understand more of the spirit and nuances behind the words, because I know her personally, and observe how she lives out her faith everyday. My heart mourned for her because I know she was trying to articulate truth as she understands it. I don’t know what her heart response was to those comments from fellow Christians, but it is hard for me to see how she could have experienced grace from them. Yes, we need to address false teaching. It is lamentable that Beth Moore didn’t respond personally to this letter because it makes it seem as though she is an unteachable teacher, and that is always dangerous. But I wonder too if the anonymizing medium of the internet pulls us all towards being unteachable. To be teachable is to be humble, and to be humble involves admitting that we don’t know or understand everything going on in each other’s hearts even if they seem to be articulating something we disagree with.
Angi said:
This has been on my heart a long time. Somehow I am afraid to speak up even though I have little to lose. I pray for courage and thank you for yours.
MimiLemay said:
That’s just beautiful. God bless you but I know you are already blessed with the greatest thing – a truly loving heart.
hazellife said:
This letter was beautiful, thank you so much for sharing it. I’m a huge fan of Glennon Melton- she has a letter in her book to her son, if he were to tell her he was gay. It is wonderful and truly written in love. I would always rather err on the side of love. I would rather love too much than too little.
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oharrisob18 said:
I appreciate your post! In 2015, everyone is claiming disability for their past and our world is crumbling from people losing it. I just itch to talk to people that are troubled because of their childhood, so they won’t become the world’s next psycho that we obviously need in 2016.
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Pura Ilusión by Adelina said:
Thank you for sharing this…makes me feel hopeful about people and the society we live in
rabiyabutt said:
thanks for sharing such a great thing
rabiyabutt said:
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eclecticsista79 said:
Reblogged this on eclecticsista79 and commented:
Inspiring
paininzeeback said:
“Let he who is without sin throw the first stone”. ” Judge not lest ye be judged “.
I swear I read that somewhere in the bible. More than once or twice. I’m sure of it. I grew up in the Catholic church and went to Catholic school. I remember walking the Stations of the Cross in first grade during Lent. I vaguely recall that there were approximately 12-14 Stations. The only memory I have left from that experience is one of standing in front of the Station in which Jesus was crucified. As tears streamed down my checks, Sister Patricia explained to us first graders that He died on the cross to pay for our sins.
For scientific reasons I do not believe that homosexuality is a choice or a sin, even though that belief was hammered into my young head for many years.
So Isaac, please enlighten me as to the exact moment in time that the Lord God abdicated his throne and left you in charge of the ” judgement” department? Not only are you judging the son but you are judging the mother as well. I thank the dear Lord that you were not blessed with a gay child. Surely they would have committed suicide by now!
This mother is doing nothing less for her son than Christ himself would do. That is to love him. He IS a child of God. Does the bible not say He is a loving God?
If this is a sin and a choice, can you please explain to me how a two or three year old child has the knowledge, maturity and understanding to look in the mirror one day and say “I chose a life of sin. A life that will cause endless heartache and self doubt. A lifetime of ridicule from ignorant, narrow minded and compassion less individuals who call themselves Christians”. God teaches us that the little children are innocent. Seeing that you having taken over for God, perhaps you could explain that one to me.
Isaac, how often do you go to your ” greedy” neighbor and preach the Word to him because he turns a blind eye to the hungry? Do you publicly call him names and judge him?
Isaac, perhaps you need a good LONG look in the mirror. Perhaps it is time to ask yourself that very important question. Am I a Christian that walks the walk or one of the many that just talk the talk? It sounds to me as if you believe you are without sin. I will be praying for God to put love and compassion in your soul, before it is too late!
You go, mom! You rock. Hugs to your family.
Anthony Baker said:
Yes, you read that in the Bible. However, you are seriously missing the context. God never abdicated His throne, but Jesus did tell us to use discernment and to judge with righteous judgment. Aside from the debate at hand, please don’t misinterpret Scripture to make your point. Go back and look at the passage in full and you should get a better understanding. I’m not trying to offend or be a jerk, or anything. It’s just, for myself, I get weary of people using the “don’t judge” argument without a proper understand of what Jesus actually said. I hope you understand and don’t get upset.
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hiro812 said:
I do want to offer an important clarification to the article above.
jess2jess said:
From an everyday girl who believes a story can change your life, this is so inspiring!
titomarita said:
I like the attitude. But then I don’t believe some things you said like “gay Jesus follower.” It’s not about what we have been unable to do or who has been unable to do it, it’s about what God says. And the bible has addressed this issue. Somehow different than you have. But as for the love, we should love as christians.
nbudie said:
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chioma1999 said:
This post is just everything , written by a good, loving Christian mother, and many people in the world need to hear this and change their perspective .
simpleshakespeare said:
I have a number of self-described “gay” friends. I was there for some of their transitions from “straight” to “gay”. In each case, the individual “discovered” that they had really been homosexual all along, and then rewrote the narrative of their lives to fit their new paradigm. As a person who had been present before, during, and after the transition, what concerned me was the tearing of personal energy that resulted. I saw people actually harming themselves and changing themselves in order to fit into the homosexual community, rather than exploring or discovering an authentic, hidden self. My point is that labelling ourselves “straight” or “gay” muddies the deeper issue, which is inner wholeness and genuine intimacy with God.
ylfrith said:
what??
kjbiblebeliever said:
Christians cannot be sodomites and Beth Moore is not a Bible Believer. What do they have in common? Both need salvation which comes only by Jesus Christ of the scriptures and not the Jesus of their twisted and warped imagination. It’s unbelievable how easily people are deceived. You want to hear from God? Read your (KJV) Bible. Want to hear from God audibly, read your (KJV) Bible out loud. God, Jesus, Paul, spoke on sodomy and many other things to include warnings of false teachers such as Moore and her cliche. Wake up people!!!!
rehmankhosani said:
rehmankhosani.wordpress.com
ylfrith said:
Ummmm, Me thinks one can read any translation of the Bible they choose and still have a relationship with God. The King James version was translated in the Dark/Middle ages. It was written with a strong influence of the culture and “norms” of the Dark Ages. I feel safe in saying that God is probably not offended by people reading other translations of the Bible. The original writer’s of the Bible lived long, long before the Middle Ages and the translating into the KJV. As far as Beth Moore goes, she is only parroting the stuff she has grown up hearing. Hopefully she will let God soften her heart and give her the understanding she needs to move past her hate speech.
Fiona said:
Thank you for sharing Merediths letter.
I am a Christian mother of a son whom is gay. All I will say is this, the God I know is a loving Father and like His son Jesus loves unconditionally. That’s what I try to do.
As to the ins and outs of wether being gay is a sin or not, that’s not for me to decide, that’s Gods job!
I do t think Jesus taught us to judge unconditionally did He?
Let us not do Satans job for him!
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shacollier said:
Interesting
meggiemom said:
The stories that will change the world are the survivors of abuse but it will help our future children who screaming two be heard
Leon Durham said:
Excellent post, Liz. I hope one day we can live in a world where society just quits making people who are different feel miserable and accept each other for who they are.
ronn19xx said:
That was a really long but a great letter from a mother on how we should truly love which i believe is the true essence of every relationship because life and true living should be and must be a relationship and not an animated existence. We all get our personhood from another person and it says we can only but live by another man.
Imagine a baby in her mother’s belly who is powerless and weak and can’t look after his or her self but rely on her mother’s nutrition to live until they are ready to face this world after nine month in their mother’s bellies. Their Mums thinks for them, eat for them and conditions their everything within. That is a great example to show that man is a social being.
We must love and we can’t be able to do that when we do not have God because the bible says among others like GOD IS SPIRIT that GOD IS LOVE. Sometimes we wait for big moments to show and demonstrate love while those around us don’t get enough of love that we have limited just in speeches and for some particular situations.
I will like to end by saying this, i believe that some times what we really fail to accept we did not do from the start is the simple fact that we did not love from start. Most mothers think that loving the baby only starts after birth.
Did you love your boy at conception? After echography and when the doctor said you baby was going to be a boy did you say oh God thank you but i would have love a baby girl??
Please don’t get me wrong, am not accusing you but it could just be where what went wrong went wrong.
But above all love is paramount
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
I’m not sure I have even the most remote understanding of what you are trying to say, especially here:
“Did you love your boy at conception? After echography and when the doctor said you baby was going to be a boy did you say oh God thank you but i would have love a baby girl??
Please don’t get me wrong, am not accusing you but it could just be where what went wrong went wrong.”
I couldn’t have cared less what the gender of the fetus was. Nor do I believe anything “went wrong.” There are plenty of children who are unwanted from the beginning of conception, which is horribly sad, but that’s not something that makes them gay – it just makes them feel unloved.
ronn19xx said:
Hello out there Meredith, let me begin by saying am really sorry, and honestly I feel bad that i was misunderstood and that trying to contribute really did not help. it was not my intention to make you feel bad, please pardon my lapses, i will try to explain what i meant, i begin by saying that everybody deserves to be love not because of any reason other that the fact that God is love and if we say we are Christians, then we should love all.
Now when i sopke of loving your baby from conception and even loving the sex of your baby, i spoke with the understanding that most women did not like the fact that they got pregnant in the first place and secondly, preferences as per the sex of the baby are often times different.
Some after echography are frustrated with the news from the doctors perheps because they were preparing or wanted a boy but now they are going to be having a girl or the other way round. You might better understand want i mean if you were an African woman from some particular tribes and family linage here and you did not have a male child.
I went further to say, i believe this same issue of peferences has a way affecting the unborn baby in cases where we wanted a girl for example and then afterwards, we discover it is a boy we are pregnant with. This might be difficult to get but it the truth.
The mother accepting the sex of the baby plays a great role on how the baby becomes.
I’ll love you to watch Arch Bishop Duncan William’s message on the Patterns of the Bloodline Part 1 n 2, i pray it helps you see what i was talking about.
To conclude, i did not say that was what happened to you, though i presumed it might be the cause of sure births.
Love covers a multitude of wrongs, and God is love, forgive me if you felt insulted, i did not mean to.
I love you.
ylfrith said:
I read this comment two times in an attempt what understand what ronn19xx was trying to say. The content of the reply was completely nonsensical. I was tempted to write the comment off as the work of a troll (an internet pot-stirrer who posts just to make trouble.)
The second reason I had to read through the comment twice was the lack of grammatical proficiency.
On the outside chance that this comment is a real one, here I go.
People do not become gay because they were not loved in utero. There is absolutely no research that I am aware of that substantiate that absurdity. Is it safe to say ronn19xx that your comment is not based on any scientific research, but more on emotional over-load? Some comments are just too irresistible to pass up with out a reply.
ronn19xx said:
hey out ylfrith i guess this is where i need to react, thank you for your comment on mine,I think you were a little harsh on me, sorry for the errors in the grammar, i am a human, am not an internet stirrer, i dont preach hatred, I still love you.
Fiona said:
Thanks for insulting all of us mothers whom have gay children! That’s what must have made my son gay- I really wanted him to be a girl. Complete and utter hogwash!
You tried to be loving in the first part of your comment but completely undid any good you said!
FYI, like Meredith, I couldn’t have cared less what sex he was, I was just so happy that I was having a baby!
ronn19xx said:
Sorry Fiona, am really sorry, i did not mean to sound that way, i was only presuming where the whole thing might, i mean might have gone wrong,
I love everybody and i even have friends like that so ,please dont get me wrong please, i really might have not placed it a comprehensive manner.
have it well. I love you
Fiona said:
Well I accept your apology ronn19xx, but your statement was such a leap of faith so to speak which is why it has caused such a reaction and indeed hurt.
All I would say is, try to think a bit more carefully in what you write especially about such a sensitive subject. Implying that mothers haven’t loved their babies while in the womb was quite a harsh thing to say. And on a personal note, I actually wanted a boy anyway😉.
Take care,
Fiona. Xx
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naziharakdi said:
Very nice
Karl Drobnic said:
Wer ist diese Frau Moore? Wie können sie so falsch sein?
Dr. Muhammad M. Hanif MD. said:
Another good one !!!
cheetahs said:
The Bible only refers to homosexuality in Romans, Timothy and Samuel (3 Books). In contrast, the Bible refers to forgiveness in about 20 Books and sin in about 30 Books. Romans 1: 27 states that … “the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.” There is a difference between people born with a natural attraction to the other sex and ones without it. These people, men and women, are born that way in an imperfect sinful world where we need the Ten Commandments stopping people killing or hurting each other. The writer Freud refers to these natural type of people when he come to the conclusion that something went wrong in their upbringing. However, the ones, and they are small in number, who were born with an unnatural attraction (towards the same sex), must not be blamed for that and must not be punished for their sexual preference. In my opinion, they need to be accepted fully as such in any society and be respected for who they are. Nobody, especially Christians, must stand in their way or stop them from entering into any type of profession. Jesus did not ask the sinner who was hanging on the cross next to him whether he was a homosexual or not. Neither should you. Look at your own life and see your own faults and sins and love those who are marginalised in your society. The world needs to see Christians acting like Jesus. Let God, and not us, be the judge off us all when He comes again. Do not judge, but love! If you have a different opinion on this, I respect your opinion.
justicenwodo said:
this is so lovely
ministrage said:
this is so inspiring
hiro812 said:
This post is just everything , written by a good, loving Christian mother, and many people in the world need to hear this and change their perspective .
sonabullet said:
Really a impressive one grt
bittersunlight said:
Amen. God loves everyone. Be it gay or not. We are all His Creation, made perfectly in His eyes. So why can’t we just love and accept everyone? Thank you Meredith for this inspiring letter,may God bless you and your family (:
jeremiahshiaka said:
Reblogged this on DJ J.BOY ENTERTAINMENT.
BibleLover: Kelly Selby said:
Hi. I hear your love. I see where you needed a personal letter and where you did not feel heard by Beth Moore Ministries. I have also studied under her bible studies with church groups which is what drew me to this blog. I also have family members in the LGBT community and one with a christian mother. I have prayed for many years for God to give me an answer and I believe that He has. I have a question and a statement that I would like you to consider. Have you ever thought that maybe homosexuality is a temptation and not a disposition? You mentioned in your letter that God doesn’t change 99.9 % of people’s sexual orientation and that Exodus wouldn’t have shut it’s doors and Alan Chambers wouldn’t have penned a book but have you considered that Alan Chambers hasn’t chosen to let God change his sexual orientation? What I mean is, if anybody who has sexual feelings that aren’t considered “biblical” and they don’t understand that those feelings are temptations, how are they going to be able to fight them or even choose not to act upon them? Everyone has their battles in life and everyone is born into sin. Is it possible that the people in the LGBT community are putting too much emphasis on their sexual orientation and not enough on Satan’s attacks against them? I say this knowing that nobody wants to live a celibate life, especially after experiencing the pleasures of sex BUT isn’t asking Jesus Christ to come into your heart and change your life an admittance that you are a sinner and that you need Him to change your life because You can’t do it by yourself? Aren’t you giving Your whole body over to Him for His Glory? Doesn’t that mean that if the bible says not to do something, and we all know that the bible puts homosexuality on the “wrong” list, that we are not supposed to do it no matter what WE want? We are supposed to be giving our whole beings over to God because of Jesus Christ sacrifice on the cross and we are not supposed to be listening or letting our feelings direct our paths. Let me be clear, I am not saying anything about your son or anybody who claims to follow Jesus Christ as them going to hell because of their sexual orientation. I will sin until the day that I die and still go to heaven only because of Jesus Christ. What I am saying is that anybody who claims to follow Jesus Christ, if that person is truly a believer, is bound to do what He says and living in extreme torture if they are going against the Holy Spirit who helps us to make the right decisions.
I hope that you will consider what I am saying and I will be praying for you and your son and everyone on your FB forum. I also hope that I didn’t offend you. My intention was to give you something to think about as a fellow christian, not to make you mad. I wish you and your son the best and can’t wait to meet you in heaven!
Fiona said:
Hi Kelly!
I’m also a Christian mother of a gay son and have indeed considered your theory. My son believes his feelings for other men are innate. He has tried to not follow them and has actually dated two girls, but that for him only confirmed that he was gay. After all, if he continued to date only girls because of the bible he wouldn’t be true to them or himself. He’d be living a lie.
I think the whole area of homosexuality is complicated and not black and white as so many Christians like to make out.
There are so many sins which are more acceptable by Christians. Try telling a lover of cream cakes not to eat the whole packet! We don’t find heated discussions about these sort of sins, but sin is sin isn’t it?
I’m just angry at the way some Christians react to the LGBT community. Their actions are not out of love and therefore, are not Godly. Can you imagine how the LGBT community feel when it is implied that they are ‘dirty sinners’. I’m not sure the cream cake eater would have such harsh judgement.
At the end of the day, I’m not interested in deciphering sin as I really believe that is Gods job, but I am interested in loving people what ever their behaviours or disposition, my son included.
If my son is sinning, then God will sort it out. In fact, let us Christians stop doing Gods job for Him and just get on with living our own lives the way Christ would like us to.
Regards,
Fiona.
BibleLover: Kelly Selby said:
I agree. It is God’s job to judge our hearts but he did give us the job of judging other’s actions when it comes to following Jesus. If we didn’t do that, we wouldn’t be able to lead others into righteousness. The way I see it, if I tell you that you are sinning, I am doing my part as your sister in Christ to help you because all sin causes devastation, even if it is eating another cream puff. I may not see that devastation but Rom 14:21 says that if I sin and cause anybody to stumble, I am in danger of hellfire. That means that if your son has feelings for another person (or eating 5 boxes of cream puffs every day) but those feelings aren’t aligned with God’s word, then he has a responsibility to resist his feelings. I am not saying that he will go to hell because he doesn’t, but he will definitely be judged by God because of it. The worry is that he will be judged unworthy to enter the kingdom of heaven because of his decision to act on his feelings instead of giving those desires to God or sacrificing his whole body for the sake of eternal heaven. I do get what you are saying and I do pray for the LGBT community. Anyone who claims Christianity but has not love, has nothing!
Fiona said:
Hi Kelly.
I do understand what you are saying and maybe you are right. As a Christian before I knew that my son was gay I probably would have said the same sort of thing. But, I do have a son that is gay and one whom does love God.
As you rightly say, he and all of us will be judged on our sins but I’m not convinced that he will be admonished to hell for eternity because of it.
I think sexuality is such a sensitive subject and no one from the LGBT community would listen if being preached at. That’s why I think it is Gods job to speak to my son personally if He wants him to change.
Changing ones genetic coding is quite different and much more difficult than giving up cream cakes and many cant do that! So, how can any of us expect people to change their sexual orientation.
I think this type of situation is extremely different from those that are promiscuous with either sex just for the fun of it. But, I’ve seen how my son has battled with this internally to the point of making him quite ill.
My prayer is that if God wants him to change then He will speak to him directly and will make it possible for his feelings to change, but until that point I will continue to love my son unconditionally and support him and help him love himself just as God loves him.
Much love,
Fiona.
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christineanncraig said:
You gotta decide if Beth was giving a true word of God If she was, she was just being a messenger. The message would be from God. So, your wrestle would b e with Him and His Word. B if she was merely giving her own opinion, then what does that matter? It has no authority. So, may the Lord give you discernment to see which it was and how to move forward from there.
monkReboot said:
The only opinion that will matter in the End is Jesus’s. If all of Scripture are really His words then we should (1) examine His thoughts about Homosexuality (2) replicate His actions towards sinners (i.e. everyone) while He was here (3) study known judgements about people who reject the Gospel (4) be exceeding gracious and biblically loving without compromising truth. He understood the depths of people’s pain and wounds the woman caught in adultery, put the self-righteous in the crowd (all of us) in their place and corrected her sinful action. His anger was at those who thought they were without sin and His mercy was extended to the one who knew she had it. We’re clearly not in a place to put judgement on people (as He is), but we can point out actions that He has judged on. If done with exceeding and genuine kindness then we mimic Him.
Juliette Kings said:
I can’t imagine how Beth, who calls herself Christian, has so much hate in her heart. She is no Christian as far as I’m concerned. She will no doubt grow old as a bitter woman with a hard cold heart devoid of love and understanding.
Any parent who loves her child unconditionally and celebrates their love is a success. Any parent who helps their child be comfortable in his/her own skin is blessed.
Any parent who accepts their child who is different is blessed.
And their child is blessed.
Haters are going to hate – make it their problem, not yours.
welcometomyworld711 said:
No time to read everyone’s comments. BUT, I would like to add that I am a God fearing soul. I am a mom of 6. Step mom of 3 of them. In this day in age… they were all raised by the Bible and by modern life TV. What we have now is a battle of children who object. I find it very very very hard to explain what God wants. 2 of our children have told us they are gay the other bi. Both under 18. *sighs* What else could a mom do but love them anyway. THEN explain over and over. Then rebuttal over and over… That while God is love and all about love…. he tells us plainly what is right and wrong. It’s terribly hard for us mortal humans to understand in this day in age that while we are with the times and God is love. GOD gave us rules just like our parents have. If you read the Bible God is pretty rough at times. That’s why he brought us his wonderful son. I truly believe that all sins are sins. Just like any other sin that we have to deal with our children being gay is one of them. WE may not LOVE them being gay or selling drugs, or speeding or smoking or cussing or getting caught watching porn…. We love them anyway. A sin is a sin. All we can do is love them anyway. God loves me anyway. I sin daily. I just hope with the right lessons in life I will walk the path I am meant to and my children will to. IN the meantime…. I know when I stick my hand on fire and they do too. We sin anyway. God loves us anyway. In the end…. we know deep down if it’s right or wrong… we will be judged. I don’t have hate in my heart. I have fear. Fear that while God says NO…. we all do it anyway. Even go so far as to make it man’s law for the little ones to grow up thinking it’s all ok. Please KNOW !!! I love my children. I love and cherish them. But I do want to guide them correctly. If anyone figures out how to do that… let me know. ❤ Love Peace and Happiness for all.
Christopher MacLellan said:
As a 58 year old gay man whose mother used to call gays “degenerates” when I was in high school growning up, I only wish a mothers support group was available then. But in the end, love is the winner! Thank you fo this beautiful post
Sharill Kaul said:
Hey check my posts thanks
jogoparty said:
It is beatiful that some people are doing so much for their religion
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theplace91 said:
So I read a lot of the comments and truly loved your letter. What I love is that true to His nature God met you in your pain and changed your heart to love in a greater way. That’s what He loves to do and why Jesus. Why the cross. So we could meet with God and know Him and have our hearts changed in a world that often tries to steal and destroy, especially families. As a mum raising young daughters I can’t have the same view on homosexuality and a lot of other issues that I had my parents communicate to me. The more I’m in the Bible, the more I know of God, I realise that there are many shades of gray and they fall into the beautiful category of God’s grace that was poured out through Jesus. I won’t raise my children to separate themselves, nor harshly judge those who aren’t living the way they understand. Recently I had to tackle the issue of a little boy at their school with ‘gender disorientation’ who is now coming to school as a girl. The only thing I could really say was that God wants us to love, He wants us to be kind. Too much ugliness has been done in the name of Christianity and yes, though, I take my Bible very literally and love the Truth that resides within it, more and more I see that God is a lot bigger, greater, gracious and merciful than we can ever fathom. All blessings as you continue to navigate this road.
sunnyjuly67 said:
See my blog sunnyjuli67.wordpress.com
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emeka350 said:
Inspiring. Would love to have conversations with you.
Christ Centered Teaching said:
Kids aren’t born gay. The only question is if you really want to know the truth?
Clay said:
Let’s consider some facts. Within the human population, we have percentages of people with a large variety of physical traits which includes hair color, eye color, facial hair density, skin tone, height and weight. And we have studied numerous genetic predispositions for various personality traits and temperaments. We also know that certain percentages of humans, based on historical tracking, will be born with various mutations and predispositions to disease and ailments. We also know that within the animal kingdom, many mammals exhibit homosexual (non-heterosexual) behavior. This includes: bison, brown bears, caribou, chimpanzees, dolphins, dogs, elephants, goats, lions and more. Throughout the ages, a small percentage of humans have exhibited this as well — same sex attraction.
Whether it’s a mutation or whatever, it doesn’t matter. Denying that some people are born gay is like denying that some people are born with red hair and blue eyes; or denying that some people are born with a birth mark. It’s a silly uneducated view of the world.
Christ Centered Teaching said:
For somebody who claims a biological basis for what they’re saying, that’s a little ridiculous even from that standpoint. You know people are made of more than just biological this or that. Virtually every test that has been done that is tried to verify clinical analysis a logical reason for gayness has been disproven when they test the population at large.
Clay said:
How is it ridiculous that we clearly see homosexual behavior in other mammals? That’s a fact. What evidence can you bring to bare that we are more than biological organisms? And while I agree that a search for a gay gene has not been conclusive, they are getting closer. I’ll quote from a respectable source: “a 2014 study in the journal Psychological Medicine showed that a gene on the X chromosome (one of the sex chromosomes) called Xq28 and a gene on chromosome 8 seem to be found in higher prevalence in men who are gay. That study, involving more than 400 pairs of gay brothers, followed the 1993 report by geneticist Dean Hamer suggesting the existence of a “gay gene.” Other research has found that being gay or lesbian tends to run in families. It’s also more likely for two identical twins, who share all of their genes, to both be gay than it is for two fraternal twins, who share just half of their genes, to both be homosexual. Those studies also suggest that genes seemed to have a greater influence on the sexual orientation of male versus female identical twins.”
Christ Centered Teaching said:
You however are an evolutionist. I am not. Mankind alone has a conscience knowing good from evil. And Oxford scientists discovered that no other mamals have the physical parts of the brain that contain the knowledge of good and evil. Not chimps, not dolphins, none. This adds scientific validity to Genesis and God’s creation of man and the fall.
Christ Centered Teaching said:
And in all cases there are a large population of the same conditions in people living as heterosexuals. Old news.
Christ Centered Teaching said:
Don’t take my word for it. Bill Maher interviews a Muslim female reporter who was the last person to speak to fellow reporter Daniel Pearl before he was beheaded in Pakistan by The Taliban. Islamic liberals are not strict doctrinal adherents. Isis is.
http://www.salon.com/2015/11/14/it_was_probably_not_the_amish_bill_maher_urges_liberals_to_wake_up_about_islam_after_paris_attacks/
chissra said:
Maskind needs religion to cope with life. And if God exists he would be love and how can love ever be wrong. It is so narrow minded to condamn homosexuality. Why does man always fear everything that is not mainstream. If God exist I know he loves all his children regardless of their sexual orientation. To think that God would hate or condamn is to give him human emotions and that is a way to belittle him. Either God loves all of us or none of us.
3dimec said:
In the beginning, God created man and woman. That a man and a woman to leave their parents and be hooked to each other and the two becomes one. God did not create two men, He created a man and a woman. God’s creation speaks His mind, He is a God of perfection not of confusion. From the Sodom and Gomorrah story, Lot offered the people his virgin daughters and not him self because it is wrong.
I believe Meredith had to choice but to accept her son, because she is a loving mother. But nowadays people have twisted the teachings of the people to suit their own beliefs to make it seem right in their own eyes. I believe the Bible was clear enough on the issue of homosexuality, but i think we Christians go at it the wrong way, when someone is wrong all we can do is correct them in love because Christ came not because of those who thought they were holy but for those who accepted their sinful nature. All we need to do is correct them in love and pray for them because this is the end days and the devil is all out to take as many people as possible with him(Christians or Not). If Meredith’s son hadn’t turned out to be gay, she wouldn’t have this kind of notion but she tailored her Christian walk to suit herself and i believe that is wrong. God created the sexual organs of the man and woman because that is how He deemed it to be. Homosexuality is an abomination but the gay people are God’s handwork so let us love the people but correct their wrong and we can do all these in love not alienation. This is my opinion. God bless us all
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
Are you aware that there are babies born intersex, with both male AND female genitalia? And the parents are then left to make the decision of whether to raise that child as a male or as a female? God created those sexual organs, as well. Are intersex people a mistake, or are they created by God to be intersex? We may never know, but I would hope those parents who have to make such a grave decision would allow God to guide them as HE ‘tailors’ their Christian walk to suit HIM. I take great offense to someone who is not living my life espousing that I am somehow tweaking my Christianity to please myself. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Jane Ferguson [OrlandHorkland] said:
She’s curiously beautiful.
uniquemorgan said:
Hi I am a poet please read my posts.
I wrote one called understanding someone I believe everyone will love it
uniquemorgan said:
uniqueloveharmony.wordpress.com
galeweithers said:
I really appreciated the honest sharing of this post and admit to wondering how Christian parents handled their children coming out. My son is 18 and one of his close friends recently came out to his parents – staunch Catholics. This child had been raised in the church; we couldn’t understand. Although we were very close to his parents they never discussed any of it with us. But we understood. Homosexuality is very taboo in my country – still. Christians are judgemental and quick to cast blame on parents. I am going to share this post on my blog however because I believe these words are important. Thanks for being a vessel for God’s Word; you are brave and totally awesome. God bless you and your family always.
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Tiffany Randall said:
Just published my book on Amazon.com and creatspace.com its called “A Little Enlightenment From A Friend” Check it out!
thephotographyconfidential said:
Great article.
If you’ve ever been to Paris, I am writing an article about it and I’d like people to share their favorite places. I love my city and want it to be safe. I want it to be loved. I want people to come visit, and see its beauty, go beyond the events that took place there last Friday. So if you ever are interested in this check out my article at https://thephotographyconfidential.wordpress.com/ feel free to do so. And just to make sure this is clear I will tell it right away, I don’t get paid for this, I just want people to keep travelling and not to be afraid. Happy teaching, and happy travels 🙂
thephotographyconfidential said:
(if you ever are interested in stories that change the world 😉 )
drewster55 said:
The world becomes a better place when messages like this appear. It reflects a true understanding of what it means to love. And one would think that everyone would be able to appreciate act of unconditional acceptance of another.
I also find it jaw-dropping confounding that this concept would have to be explained to someone who professes a faith where love is the core message.
Religion may be presented to us as a “one size fits all” spiritual garment, but the reality is that we have to do some adjusting – here and there – to make sure it’s a snug fit to function the way it’s supposed to. For those who wear it “as is,” they find themselves tripping over conflicting messages that, only shows their lack of understanding in faith. I would challenge anyone who holds such staunch beliefs up in the face of strangers, to take up that debate with loved ones who are homosexual. That should make the disconnection obvious. Thanks again for the article!
tareakrahman said:
when u seen ur side may be wrong behaved by unknown reason…
but ur smiling face can solved a million of problems….
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ujenajackson said:
If the Bible says we are born in sin with iniquity in our hearts, I chalk being Gay up to that. Its like any other unclean Spirit such as perversion, envy, lying. The poont Im trying to make is that I believe beimg Gay os wrong, but as a believer in God i must also believe that all sins are equal and if there is to be a change, then it will come out of love. Regardless if they remain Gay or Lesbian, I love anyway, pray in silence, and believe that God will contact whomever He sees fit. God will also use anyone, whether heterosexual or apart of the LGBT community that has a willing heart. LGBT’s that have developed a real relationship with God are my brothers and sisters in Christ as well. Stay encouraged LGBT community, especially those feeling persecuted by the Church. And to the unsupportive Church, It’s not our place to judge right and wrong or try to change anyone. It is our business and should be your mission to love everyone with the same Love God graces you with!
#TheLoveofGod
ineffablejenny said:
All the best! You are gonna be a great mum.
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Diversamente a Dieta said:
Thanks for this letter
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jill said:
such a controversial subject- I love all three of my sons & I believe that life is full of struggles. But no temptation has seized them except what is common to man & i will never accept anything but Gods will for their lives. Standing with scripture.
ylfrith said:
Jill, homosexuality is not a struggle, the struggle comes from the some Christians telling the LGBTQ community they are not acceptable. Gay is exactly who God has designed some people to be. I know you believe you are “standing with scripture”, I too took your stand for many years. As a progressive believer, I have come to a place where I realize that the Bible is God breathed, not God dictated. God stays the same, yes. But, life progresses and so does culture. God is not a static being, he knew from the beginning that we would have to change and grow and ask for help along the way, to breath fresh life into us. The bible does tell us that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. But I don’t believe or interpret that as static. Sameness means that he will always be the God of the universe. Static on the other hand means unmoving, unyielding, hard. The few times same sex attraction is even addressed in the Bible, it is commented on from the only perspective that these men could give. A perspective based on where they were in time and what the culture dictated at the time they were writing. Homosexuality was not a word or idea that was even invented yet. When Paul speaks of an “abomination”, he is historically and culturally speaking of Rulers, powerful men who had the upper hand in culture taking sexual advantage of slaves and citizens with no social or cultural power. They were not speaking of any type of committed relationship. I had been taught in the echo chamber of evangelical Christianity to go along with every interpretation that came from the pulpit, to “halleluiah” and “amen” every bit of rhetoric that was preached to me week after week, year after year. I have come to a place in my walk with God that he gives me hope and peace to believe that asking him for a fresh view of him from a moving and living perspective is not sinful, it’s relational. I know change is frightening, but if you remove yourself from the vacuum of dogma and conformity and take a big gulp of fresh air you too can learn to interpret Gods word with a new clarity and vision. Peace.
Fiona said:
A wonderful written reply. Thank you. X
Jill said:
I am not in a vacuum I choose to interpret scripture differently. I respect your opinion & I ask that you do the same. I have had my own experiences with three sons & without getting into details I love all of them deeply & equally. I will continue to pray Gods will for them til the day I die. Everyone has the right to feel & deal with their children’s lives. No one should judge or past judgements on other people who choose to believe in their own way. Peace!
ReignofFaith said:
Maybe I’m the odd woman out but I don’t find the ministry’s response offensive or dismissive. To be honest, the fact that they even responded is impressive to me. The amount of letters they get from people offering their reasons for offense are probably quite numerous. I’m not completely familiar with her ministry so I am only going off of the letter that you posted. I’m guessing her stance hasn’t changed but she was still moved by the letter she received. One thing I have learned in my walk is that people are going to disagree and it is okay. I also have learned that one of the biggest detriments to my faith is offenses. Why be offended off of something she teaches? You can decide to believe differently or ask God for the Truth but disagreements back and forth are typically unfruitful.
Jill said:
We’ll stated!
Jerry Mabbott said:
I like this post. I’m a Christian and former pastor with gay friends. My son is a pastor and although we both believe that the intimate activities of all who sin is something that God hates, gay or otherwise. God loves all. Period. We’re all sinners saved by Grace. I have witnessed gay people change, but not because of badgering from congregants but rather the Holy Spirit working on the person internally. It wasn’t fake so I believe God can change any sinful person of sinful behavior. We all have them. You did nothing wrong and neither did your son. I’m happy that you love him unconditionally. God does as well. Since I choose to base my beliefs on the writings in The Bible, God doesn’t like my sinful behavior any more than anyone else’s. If any behavior is called a sin I accept it, repent and ask for help in changing the behaviors so I can rid myself of this sin. Tomorrow there will be more sins to deal with. God will still love me and I’ll keep reading His Holy Word and try to let Him work within me. As for others, I’ll pray that God will move in all sinners hearts to effect change to become more like Him. I am not a judge. “They will know we are Christians by our love”.
maniacmommy said:
There are others (who disagree with you) who have entered this conversation with love, compassion, and grace: “Compassion without Compromise – How the Gospel Frees Us to Love Our Gay Friends Without Losing the Truth” by Adam T. Barr & Ron Citlau. “What Does the Bible Really Teach About Homosexuality?” by Kevin DeYoung. “The Secret Thoughts of an Unlikely Convert” by Rosaria Butterfield.
maniacmommy said:
Please do not lump those of us who disagree with you (and others who have posted here) into some “hater” category to be despised. Give us the same respect that you are asking for in having your opinion. http://bravegirlcommunity.com/2015/07/02/the-church-my-lgbt-story-and-how-love-really-wins/
N.L. Brall said:
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2014/12/14149/
kalpesh Bhanushali said:
Good 1 mam…..!!!
Hii myself kalpesh bhanushali from India..!!!
mick25117 said:
Homosexuality is beyond mans control and power. It is what happens in life. In conception i think we all begin as girls hence men have nipples
fiveof9 said:
Just as God has revealed to you, through His Word, so shall He reveal to others seeking His Word, not someone else’s opinion. That is my prayer for all who seek truth. May the Holy Spirit be the One that is consulted. Fear God, not man. Author’s put down their interpretation. The Bible is Truth. The Holy Spirit will deliver Truth for those who seek. That is my understanding. Expecting Beth Moore to respond ignores God’s Word. His Word is the only Word that matters. Blessings to you and much love. What a lovely story that reveals your truth’s. Our Father, who art in Heaven, Hallowed be thy name…
Dot Garlow said:
We are all tempted to sin…we must choose not to, that’s all. Whether the temptation is adultery, homosexuality or pedophilia, or lying. God will help us to not fall into sin if we let Him. The sin is in committing that sin, not the temptation. Even Jesus was tempted in all ways, according to scripture, but He chose not to sin and to honor God. Unfortunately, homosexuals feel their sin is one which should be approved. God has stated clearly that we must not continue in sin so that grace may abound. He does not chose one particular sin to approve and still condemn the others. This is delusional thinking. Someone is clouding minds here.
Morven Baker said:
Dot, a sin is something we choose. We agree on that one. Tell me then, why would someone choose to be bullied, spit on, beat up, and alienated from their peers? Why would someone choose to be disowned by their families, choose to break their mother’s heart, knowingly choose to be viewed with disgust and be cast off in disgrace? Why would thousands of young men & women choose to commit suicide because they have gone through these experiences and have prayed FOR YEARS for God to change them? I can choose to lie, steal, have an affair …. I did not choose to be heterosexual, nor did you. Our children did not choose to be gay. They were born this way. Ah, were it so easy to “choose not to, that’s all.” A little compassion on your part might be a bit more Christ like than the condemnation you so easily are giving out. Ask any geneticist, pediatrician or mother of a gay child. Dot, you have a lot to learn.
ylfrith said:
Excellent comment Morven Baker. I totally agree.
adamlivecchi said:
Jesus does not condone sexual immorality. Whether it’s straight or gay.
velmadunkin said:
You’re an awesome mom. I’m a devout Catholic. A religion that up until a few years ago banned those who were gay. I have always had a problem with that. One of the commandments is to love your neighbor. That doesn’t mean your neighbor next door, it means everyone. Thou shall not judge is another one. If God doesn’t judge, what gives me the right to judge those who are gay. Gods love for all of us is unconditional. I love my children unconditionally. Unconditionally means I would love my children even if they were gay. Good for you for doing the same. Loving your son unconditionally and standing up for him.
alandelonwinburn said:
Meredith you are what religion should be about. Let God break my heart open so that I may live a life of compassion, understanding, and less judgemental. This should be more of a Christians perspective, as opposed to casting stones. To the woman saying that gay is a fad, you need to get out of the bible and into the world around you so you too may understand someone different than your self allowing yourself to become a better Christian.
ylfrith said:
Yes! You hit the nail on the head alandelonwinburn.
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rahuljalotra said:
Reblogged this on Rahul jalotra official page and commented:
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Anthony Baker said:
If nothing else, the many comments on this post should be read and studied for their theological content. Essentially, many of the more praised comments base their conclusions on what amounts to be unorthodox views of God.
ylfrith said:
What exactly does an unorthodox view of God mean? Very subjective.
Anthony Baker said:
Process Theology and the notion of interdependence between God and His creation.
ylfrith said:
I had never heard the term process theology. I looked it up. Interesting.
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
To the Jews of His day, Jesus had some rather unorthodox views of God.
Anthony Baker said:
True, to a point. However, Jesus never contradicted the Scriptures; he expounded on them. The Jews to whom he appeared unorthodox were the ones who kept the letter, but not the spirit of the Law. Jesus did not come to teach of a different God than they already knew. He did not come to preach rainbows and roses and develop a pluralistic religion in which everything is accepted; He came to testify to the Truth (John 18:37).
Meredith Webster Indermaur said:
Anthony, the Law said no work on the Sabbath, yet Jesus did the work of healing as well as allowing the 12 to harvest grain on the Sabbath. The Law said to stay within a certain distance of lepers, yet Jesus sought them out and touched them. In that way, He was clearly testifying to the truth of Who God really is.
Morven Baker said:
“Preach rainbows and roses and develop a pluralistic religion in which everything is accepted…. ” Anthony, the last time I checked my old “red letter” edition of the Bible, the words of Jesus were pretty clear. He told his hearers to “love your neighbor as yourself.” and was pretty clear on how he felt about divorce & remarriage, the inclusion of the outcasts and the way we are to care for the poor among us. He never said one word about homosexuality. I think it would be wise before claiming that we must “testify to the truth,” that we ALL look in a mirror and see what truths we are choosing to obey. As for me, sitting with the outcasts of today – our beautiful LGBTQ children – and loving them unconditionally, is something I can easily see Jesus doing as well. I believe he sits among us.
Anthony Baker said:
Morven, what I hear you saying is that you think I DON’T sit with the “outcasts.” You seem to imply that I do NOT obey the words in red. You also seem to be suggesting that Jesus cared not about a person’s sin, only their friendship, and never addressed how they were living. And, you also seem to be suggesting that if Jesus never mentioned something, it is not a sin. Am I correct in these assumptions?
You know, as I’m sitting here writing this one particular story comes to mind: the Samaritan woman at the well. Should that story be retold through the modern understanding of Jesus, I suppose he would have stopped by the well, asked for a drink, and never even brought up the fact that she was living with a man that was not her husband. I mean, why would He have done that if all His desire was to show love and support? In reality, Jesus wanted to her to see that the life she was living was known by Him, and that all she had been doing was trying to quench a thirst in her soul. By implication her relationships were immoral – she was immoral – and that was why it was a big deal for Jesus to be talking with her. But He did care for her enough to offer her living water to quench the thirst of her soul, not an affirmation of her hopping from one bed to another.
That also makes me think of the poor woman caught in adultery. What a beautiful story! She was about to be stoned (which would have been legal at that time), but Jesus stepped in and pointed out the hypocrisy of those about to enforce judgment. But it should not be overlooked that Jesus did NOT say, “Those men were wrong in their assessment of your sin.” Jesus did NOT say, “Sex is a natural need of life, and no one should judge you for wanting to satiate that need.” No, Jesus showed mercy, but He also said, “Go and SIN NO MORE.” Jesus came to the aid of a woman being judged unfairly (where was the man?), but he did not excuse what she had done.
I have a few gay friends (lesbians, to be exact). However, it’s not exactly easy being a pastor and trying to make friends with people who automatically assume I’m going to hit them over the head with a Bible or preach at them every chance I get. It’s also hard to be friends with people who equate my love for them with my acceptance AND affirmation of a particular lifestyle (they can’t believe I can love them if I don’t agree with them). So, if your above assumption is correct, you are mistaken about me.
One last thing… Jesus is the second Person of the Trinity; He is God. Therefore, the whole of Scripture can testify to the truth of what Jesus has said. And since Jesus never mentioned one thing about child pornography or people having sex with (and marrying) amusement park rides (that happened), should we assume He condones these things? Of course not.
Morven Baker said:
Anthony, it is moments like this that I wish I could just sit across the table and talk to you. I think we actually would like each other. I’m glad that you at least know some gay people. Most people who preach about the “gay lifestyle” have never actually met a gay person. It is a lot closer to home, however, to be a mother of a gay child, to have known since she was three years old that she was “not like the others” and to have watched in agony as she prayed for thirty years for Jesus to “take away the gay.” My knees were worn from the same prayers. However, our prayers were not answered, and she is still gay. The “healing” expected never came, but I have come to learn that she was never “ill” to begin with. She is whole.
The reality is, any “lifestyle” a gay person has as their agenda is the same as yours: to live in peace with your neighbor, to enjoy the friendships of others, to worship God as you feel is right and to fall in love & raise a family. This is normal and human and GOOD.
God hasn’t changed my child. God loves my child and made her the way she is. I find it abhorrent that you, even in jest, would liken my child to one who engages in child pornography or some bestial activity of any kind. My child loves Jesus with all of her heart, has taken teams on missions trips and has literally given away nearly everything she has to those in need. Oh, and yes, she loves a woman, and we adore her partner.
As for the outcasts, I am glad that you sit with them as well, even if you do not agree or understand. It has taken me a long while to get to this present place of understanding. It is still a journey for my husband & I as we know that what we thought would be for our daughter is not as God willed, as he clearly did not answer our prayers. That we can accept. What we cannot accept is that God would desire her to be alone for all of her life, to not have a loving companion to come home to, to have a “forever best friend” in her spouse. We believe that God has given her that gift, and we are grateful.
You may not agree, or understand, but I would ask that you allow for the possibility that the Jesus who touched lepers (yes, GOD himself) is also the Jesus who created my child just as she is (and, yes, I do believe she was born gay), that he loves her and has gifted her with the same blessings you would wish for yourself.
Sadly, the “outcasts” of this present day are the LGBT community, and it is those I sit with outside of the gates. Long ago I learned that I would never be able to comprehend why these precious people were born the way they were, but I also learned, thankfully, that God’s mercy and love for them is just as profound and unlimited as he feels about you & I.
eemeh said:
Reblogged this on Eemehblog.
Globalresidence said:
A great insight. Many thanks for sharing.
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williwash said:
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moinhameed said:
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Have been tagged as love
Human Rights Sanrakshan Sansthaa said:
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