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#thefruitdoesnotlie, affirming, Christian, evangelical, Good Fruit, LGBT, LGBTQ, Nashville Statement, Serendipitydodah for Moms
Jesus said if you aren’t sure about something check out the fruit because “every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit”
People were asking Jesus a lot of questions.
They wanted to know what they should believe – who they should follow – who they should emulate and support.
They wanted to know who was right – who knew the true way? What prophets should they trust? What rabbi should they follow?
Instead of answering with a list of shoulds and shouldn’ts or naming names he offered a formula that would be useful to truth seekers throughout all of time.
Jesus advised those who were listening …
When you are not sure about a specific doctrine, or a certain theological point, or some Christian message you can simply check out the fruit that it is producing.
If it is producing good fruit then it is of God and true. Embrace and follow the teaching.
If it is producing bad fruit then it is not of God and not true. Abandon the teaching.
Scripture does not address most things specifically. Instead it gives us some guiding principles to live by. Then people come along and try to figure out how to apply those guiding principles to real life. When we get it right it mostly leads to whole, healthy, vibrant lives. When we get it wrong it mostly leads to broken, unhealthy, hopeless lives.
If a specific doctrine is mostly producing self loathing, despair, hopelessness, depression, isolation, shame, self harm and other such bad fruit then it’s a no brainer … it’s not good doctrine and we should abandon it.
The fruit doesn’t lie.
You can twist scripture.
But, the fruit doesn’t lie.
You can always find a verse to more or less say what you want it to say.
But, the fruit doesn’t lie.
You can always find a Christian leader to teach what you believe.
But, the fruit doesn’t lie.
You can always find a book that supports your point of view.
But, the fruit doesn’t lie.
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This week a group of conservative evangelical leaders laid out their beliefs on human sexuality, including opposition to same-sex marriage and fluid gender identity, in a new doctrinal statement they titled the Nashville Statement
The statement grows out of a shame based doctrine that has proven over and over again to mostly produce bad fruit in the lives of LGBT people who wholeheartedly embrace it.
While it is true that there is an occasional story of an LGBT person who seems to be doing okay embracing anti LGBT Christian theology, it is disingenuous to stand in front of a tree and hold up a few good pieces of fruit while ignoring thousands of pieces of bad fruit laying on the ground surrounding the tree.
The vast majority of LGBT Christians who embrace the idea that they must either change their orientation, deny their gender identity or face life long celibacy experience depression, hopelessness, shame, despair and self loathing. Many experience suicide ideation and some even end their life.
And the statement doesn’t just say that those who disagree with the anti LGBT doctrine are wrong.
The statement says that those who are affirming are outside of the Christian faith and that it is wrong to think of this as something that falls into the “agree to disagree” column.
They have stated it in such a way to make it clear that they see this as a non-negotiable.
Article 10 states:
WE AFFIRM that it is sinful to approve of homosexual immorality or transgenderism and that such approval constitutes an essential departure from Christian faithfulness and witness.
WE DENY that the approval of homosexual immorality or transgenderism is a matter of moral indifference about which otherwise faithful Christians should agree to disagree.
That is a deep line in the sand they are drawing.
It seems obvious to me they are saying if you support the statement you should not be in fellowship with someone who does NOT support the statement.
It seems obvious to me they are saying if you are the parent of an LGBT child who is in a same sex relationship you should reject and separate from your child.
It seems obvious to me they are saying if you have family and friends who are affirming you should shun them.
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Personally I don’t give a hoot what they think.
I am long past the point of recognizing evangelicals as those who have credibility or authority when it comes to my own life.
But I am deeply concerned about LGBT people – especially LGBT youth – and families with LGBT children who are a part of faith communities that support the statement.
The message is toxic and damaging and some parents will think they are doing the loving thing by abiding by it, when in reality they will be placing a tremendous and unnecessary burden on their kids that will be extremely harmful and might very well do irreparable damage to their precious children.
The fruit doesn’t lie.
The message of the statement will surely tear families apart and drive people away from the faith.
The fruit doesn’t lie.
The message will produce depression, despair, shame, hopelessness, self loathing and even suicide.
The fruit doesn’t lie.
The message will not produce life – it will produce death – relational death, emotional death, spiritual death and physical death.
The fruit doesn’t lie.
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ON THE OTHER HAND THERE IS SOME GOOD NEWS:
When you listen to LGBTQ Christians who are connecting with faith communities that affirm their relationships and identities you will find that they are experiencing a lot of good fruit in their lives. They are typically healthier in every way – relationally, emotionally, spiritually and physically.
The fruit doesn’t lie!
(If you would like to delve deeper into what scripture says and doesn’t say about same sex relationships check out this post which addresses the verses most often used to condemn same sex relationships.)
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And there is more good news … there are a LOT of Christians who don’t support the Nashville Statement.
Here are two statements that affirm LGBTQ Christians, their relationships and their identities that were crafted by Christians in response to the Nashville Statement:
Here is the “God is Love” statement from The Liturgists that affirms LGBTQ relationships and identities in the church. Free free to add your signature and share this life producing statement.
and
Here is the Denver Statement from the House for All Sinners & Saints that also affirms LGBTQ relationships and identities in the church which would be good to share as it will most assuredly produce good fruit in the life of many.
#thefruitdoesnotlie
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And MORE good news:
If you are the mom of an LGBTQ kid there is a great online community you might want to join:
Email lizdyer55@gmail.com for more info about the group.
Lisa said:
From a Mama Dragon, sisters to Mama Bears for sure:
THANK YOU! Our faiths resonate, your words make my heart sing. The fruits that I have received in my loving support of my LGBTQ+ family (and they are ALL my family now–related to me by blood or not!) are good and strong and so spiritual! I’m closer to my Savior and my Heavenly Parents than I have EVER been in a life of church activity. The Spirit is working throughout the world in creating a rising tide of love and support and inclusion for our LGBTQ+ folks. I hope that I can share these wonderful fruits with those who are SO in need of them.
Lyn Trosper said:
Proof that “”the fruit does not lie” lives in this statement. Thank you so much. My faith was sorely tested by the Nashville Statement but this gives back some hope. Thank you!
William said:
Thank you
Jim said:
You did not define fruit.
https://bible.org/illustration/what-fruit
Jeff said:
Respectfully, I think you meant to cut and paste in Article 10 from the Nashville Statement, not Article 12. Your comments before and after make more sense if you were talking about Article 10.
Liz said:
You are right and went back and corrected that. Thanks!
Betsy Bruce Henning said:
This is so encouraging, Liz. Honestly and beautifully said. Thank you.
Larry Owens said:
I’m a little confused. The passage in the sermon on the mount, where it talks about judging a tree by it’s fruit, is talking about judging people, not doctrine. Are you saying that we should judge scripture by how it makes us feel?
Lawrence said:
You picked up on that spiritual “sleight of hand” too?
Liz said:
There is no sleight of hand – the fruit of a prophet is definitely connected to the fruit that is produced in the lives of those who follow the prophet’s teaching.
Liz said:
I’m saying we should judge doctrine by the fruit it produces in the people that embrace it. Don’t you agree that following Christ and his way of living should produce mostly emotionally healthy human beings? I realize there are exceptions but if you take a group of people and have them follow a specific Christian teaching and it mostly produces depression, despair, hopelessness, self loathing then wouldn’t you think something is wrong with the teaching?
Can you name any Christian teaching that you would expect to produce people who are emotionally unhealthy?
Jimmi said:
LGBTXYZ are bad fruits!!! Denounce your sins!!! Evil perverts!!! They feel suicidal because they know they are guilty of sin!!! If you are the tree, your son is the bad fruit!!!
Larry Owens said:
I’m going to try this again. My last reply has not shown up. Maybe it has something to do with the thread. Maybe I goofed when I tried to submit. I hope that it is not because you have blocked me. If you have, it is quite telling. Why would you block the respectful reply that I tired to post but not that hateful one by Jimmi?
Here is what I tried to post;
“I suppose it depends on what you mean by emotionally healthy. I was a functioning addict for a good part of my life. When I embraced it I felt content and happy, but when I began to come out of that lifestyle I often felt depression, despair and self-loathing. The presence of those emotions did not signify that I was on the wrong track. I could have returned to the drugs and escaped the emotional distress that resulted in getting off of them. That didn’t mean it was the right thing to do, or the healthy thing in the long run. I still struggle with this and it is still a source of emotional distress in my life.
God isn’t concerned with our comfort as much as our character. He isn’t concerned about the temporary as much as the eternal. Life is hard. God never promised it wouldn’t be, on the contrary, He promised that following Him would be a major source of pain and strife. If you live a life without any hardships you will never grow as a person. There can be no courage without fear, endurance without strife, growth without struggle. Each one of us has our own burdens to bear. Dealing with those will always be difficult, and often take a lifetime of struggle. Often the only thing that can give us hope is understanding the contrast between this short time on earth and the eternity that is ahead of us”
All I was trying to get across is that if your “argument from emotion” were valid it could be used to justify ANY sin. You have every right to do that if you want, but you can’t call it Christian.
Again, my heart goes out to you. I can see how much you love your son, and how his decisions affect the people who love him.
Liz said:
Larry,
I’m suggesting you look at the big picture. Most addicts in the long run become healthier emotionally, relationally, spiritually and physically when they get clean. Most LGBT people who embrace the idea that they cannot have a same sex relationship without sinning become less healthy in all those ways in the long run. There are exceptions and you need to look at what happens over time in the majority of case but the evidence is overwhelming – it is easy to determine the best course – the course that most likely leads to life.
Larry Owens said:
The way that addicts become healthier is that they no longer define themselves by their addiction and are able to move past their self-destructive behavior. If the addict continues to identify as an addict they will never be able to get clean. AA encourages people to call themselves recovering alcoholics rather than alcoholics.
I’d like to know where your “overwhelming evidence” is coming from. According to this report from the CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr077.pdf) it is more common for people who identify as gay or bi to have physical or psychological health issues than it is for a straight person. It looks as though these problems are the majority rather than the exception.
If you are truly want to look at the big picture you need to look beyond this short time on earth to the eternity ahead of us all. If we put our own wants and desires ahead of the Lordship of Christ we may put that eternal life in jeopardy. I’ll say it again; God is more concerned about our character than our comfort. Indulging ourselves in this life may in fact lead to a happier time on this earth, but that course leads to death, not life.
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